Seattle has a graffiti problem. Seattle has an ivy issue. I have a solution. Why not promote the growth of ivy along the many walls lining our freeways? Anyone who lives in this part of the world knows that ivy needs little encouragement, and less maintenance, to move in and overwhelm its surroundings. So WSDOT would not even have to work hard—if they did, it would help—and soon Seattle’s freeways walls would sport a verdant skin of protection that, I suspect, most graffiti practitioners would avoid.
Sep 21, 2023·edited Sep 21, 2023Liked by David B. Williams
you said, “hard surfaces amplify sound”.
while hard surfaces don’t generally do much to make sound go away, they cannot amplify it, they merely reflect it. a surface in general will reflect and absorb, the harder and smoother it is the less it will absorb and the more it will reflect. however, multiple hard surfaces working together can reflect and focus sound creating loud spots. once a sound leaves it’s source it will decrease in energy in open space according to an inverse square law.
ps: i like the ivy vs graffiti idea. good use for an otherwise evil plant.
You are absolutely correct that iIvy certainly is a major invasive plant and we need to continue to work to eradicate it, particularly in green spaces. But perhaps we can also take advantage of it, in limited places, to do some good. I agree that graffiti is an important way for people to express themselves but I also have a problem with how so much of it covers private buildings, murals in public spaces, and often informational signs. These are not areas where ivy would help but I would like to see less graffiti.
No, I didn't say that. Please don't put words into my mouth. Being against people marking up others' private property does not imply I am offended by the First Amendment.
Roger, you are correct to point out the downsides. It's always a balance that requires judicial decisions. With blackberry, at least there's limited concerns about damaging the walls. DBW
Yes, but about blackberries - I'd hate to have them somewhere that people would eat them, since they'll be absorbing toxins, as you noted. I wonder if graffiti artists are more motivated than blackberry pickers.
Hi David, This is really a terrible idea. English Ivy is an invasive plant in North America. That means that its spread is bad for native plants and therefore also native insects and birds. It is on the USDA invasive species list. it just doesn't sit there on the wall by the highway but is transmitted to other locales - by birds, wind, spreading roots, etc. Even though it may be that we will never get rid of it, that doesn't mean we should HELP spread this or any other invasive - thereby contributing to the ecological crisis that is the alarming extinction rate of species of all kinds. Read Douglas W. Tallamy, Bringing Nature Home. (or maybe you have already and are just ignoring it!)
I love the idea of a green solution to the bland and/or graffitied highway walls. A bit of nature surrounding so much pavement makes a lot of sense for all the reasons you mentioned. Seems like it might be calming to all of us in ways we may need now more than ever.
There may be a type of ivy that’s not so invasive, but English ivy is already taking over way too much, not that for sure. But it is an interesting idea. Gardeners, what else might work?
Jen, thanks for your note and important observations about native plants. I also completely agree about the problems of ivy and blackberry and Scotch broom and that we should do all we can to eradicate them in green spaces. But I also think that they are not going to go away and maybe there's an opportunity to take advantage of them, on a limited, and I'd hope, controlled basis, in places that are generally not good habitat for our local species.
Jen, wow that's great to read about, and, planting with Native species is truly a much better idea than mine! I hope that we can do more of it up in our neck of the words.
you said, “hard surfaces amplify sound”.
while hard surfaces don’t generally do much to make sound go away, they cannot amplify it, they merely reflect it. a surface in general will reflect and absorb, the harder and smoother it is the less it will absorb and the more it will reflect. however, multiple hard surfaces working together can reflect and focus sound creating loud spots. once a sound leaves it’s source it will decrease in energy in open space according to an inverse square law.
ps: i like the ivy vs graffiti idea. good use for an otherwise evil plant.
Aha, I will clarify what I wrote.
acoustics, my sub-major to electrical engineering, uw ‘76
I like the concept but I'd prefer a native plant with similar characteristics, if one exists.
I'd be really concerned with unintended consequences - ivy aggressively expands its domain, as I well know in my damn backyard!
Because ivy is invasive, fake ivy is earth killing plastic, and graffiti is a valid form of expression.
You are absolutely correct that iIvy certainly is a major invasive plant and we need to continue to work to eradicate it, particularly in green spaces. But perhaps we can also take advantage of it, in limited places, to do some good. I agree that graffiti is an important way for people to express themselves but I also have a problem with how so much of it covers private buildings, murals in public spaces, and often informational signs. These are not areas where ivy would help but I would like to see less graffiti.
“I’m offended by the First Amendment and want to regulate art and expression.”
Your reply had some typos. I fixed it for you.
No, I didn't say that. Please don't put words into my mouth. Being against people marking up others' private property does not imply I am offended by the First Amendment.
Some good ideas here, but have you considered the side effects?
If there are nearby trees, the ivy will find them and strangle them, unless effort is dedicated to preventing that, with regular cutting.
Also, as the ivy grabs onto the concrete walls, does it do damage and cause crumbling? I don't know, but I hope someone does.
Roger, you are correct to point out the downsides. It's always a balance that requires judicial decisions. With blackberry, at least there's limited concerns about damaging the walls. DBW
Yes, but about blackberries - I'd hate to have them somewhere that people would eat them, since they'll be absorbing toxins, as you noted. I wonder if graffiti artists are more motivated than blackberry pickers.
Good question. I have seen both in places that I wouldn't expect them!
Helluva point, well made. Thank you for turning the tables on conventional wisdom a bit.
Hi David, This is really a terrible idea. English Ivy is an invasive plant in North America. That means that its spread is bad for native plants and therefore also native insects and birds. It is on the USDA invasive species list. it just doesn't sit there on the wall by the highway but is transmitted to other locales - by birds, wind, spreading roots, etc. Even though it may be that we will never get rid of it, that doesn't mean we should HELP spread this or any other invasive - thereby contributing to the ecological crisis that is the alarming extinction rate of species of all kinds. Read Douglas W. Tallamy, Bringing Nature Home. (or maybe you have already and are just ignoring it!)
BRILLIANT IDEA!
When they make them without seeds I could agree with the ideas
That would be the ideal.
I love the idea of a green solution to the bland and/or graffitied highway walls. A bit of nature surrounding so much pavement makes a lot of sense for all the reasons you mentioned. Seems like it might be calming to all of us in ways we may need now more than ever.
There may be a type of ivy that’s not so invasive, but English ivy is already taking over way too much, not that for sure. But it is an interesting idea. Gardeners, what else might work?
The famous ivy-covered hotel in Victoria, the Empress, has had its English ivy stripped off, to be replaced by Boston Ivy when repairs are finished: https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/victorias-empress-shorn-of-ivy-but-not-forever-4627736
By the way, both English Ivy and Himalayan Blackberry are on the official Washington State Noxious Weed list: https://www.nwcb.wa.gov/class-c-noxious-weeds
Diane Yorgason-Quinn, Gig Harbor, Wa
Like so many obvious and brilliant solutions, I'm sure there must be downsides.
Still, it's brilliant and I hope it is pursued.
Jen, thanks for your note and important observations about native plants. I also completely agree about the problems of ivy and blackberry and Scotch broom and that we should do all we can to eradicate them in green spaces. But I also think that they are not going to go away and maybe there's an opportunity to take advantage of them, on a limited, and I'd hope, controlled basis, in places that are generally not good habitat for our local species.
Jen, wow that's great to read about, and, planting with Native species is truly a much better idea than mine! I hope that we can do more of it up in our neck of the words.